This is the most head-wrecking thing my parents do. I am loathe to even write about it, lest some lurking narcissistic troll decides to try this on their 'wayward kid'.
But I am positively losing my sanity to this, and I have to get it out.
"Instant Denial" is what I call the tactic. Here's how it currently plays out in my life, through EF:
After going "Low-Contact" and painfully explaining to EF in email, phone calls and text messages (links to NPD websites attached) why I'm doing what I'm doing, he seemingly 'forgot' the whole conversations a day or two later. Buddy went from 'understanding' but 'not agreeing' with my viewpoint (fine - I'll take that), to stating "I cannot relate to your grudge-holding" a few days later.
This even drives my 'normal' husband batty. We painstakingly put in a gargantuan effort to try to get EF to comprehend, even a little, my view on the subject. We thought it stuck, at least insofar as he was aware of my feelings and thoughts, and then there he is in the next sentence thinking that I'm holding a grudge about one incident in the distant past - NOT the continual mistreatment of me by NM today!!!
As frustrating as that was (and is), what's happening now is even worse.
My "Low-Contact", as I have oft mentioned, is being challenged in every way they know how.
They show up at my home. They show up at my workplace. This, alone, is enough to ruin my week and push me that much closer to a restraining order (or at least threatening them with one).
Then, the texts and emails.
"I'm in your neighbourhood. Let's do lunch."
No. I told you, time and time again, I need 3 week's notice AND I may still say no, depending on my needs. You haven't even given me a day's notice, f*ck off.
Followed by a text three hours later,
"We're going for dinner on the 12th. We'd like you to come too."
No. We've been through this. I said I needed space. I will let you know when I'm ready to see you, not the other way around.
Fight ensues (I remind EF of NPD and my reasons. I stick to my guns. Sometimes he says, "Fine. Okay, I get it. I'll give you space." Other times the conversation goes silent.).
Next week - "I'm at reception at your work."
Refusal, boundaries kept. Reminder of last week, responded to with complete denial. "There was no understanding". "What are you talking about?!". "I have no idea what you're talking about!!" Or, "You are just holding a grudge against your NM! You're being a b*tch!".
Good, maybe he won't speak to this 'b*tch' for a year!
Two days later, "I know this is short notice, but we'd like to see you for brunch Saturday."
(QG loses her mind at this point!).
See, here's the problem - I can keep saying "No," but it is so hard for me (so hard!). It's hard on me. And they won't give up.
They are trying to wear me down. And I'm already worn down after a lifetime of this b*llsh*t they refer to as "family". I can't handle it.
Do they know? Do they know that five more dinner invites and I'll kill myself? It's like they know! Are they trying to destroy me once and for all? Make my mind shatter into a million pieces I can't put back together?
I guess it doesn't matter what they're going for. It isn't the actions of a loving set of parents, that's for sure.
So here's my plan: my last message was pretty short ("No - I need space.").
I'm not replying to another message for a month. I don't care who died, I don't care that NM's apartment burnt to the ground, I don't care if suddenly I mysteriously inherited a million dollars from some unknown uncle. I'm challenging you, o 'universe', to chuck at me what you will - I won't give in.
The reason why I keep responding to their missives is that if I don't, they show up at my workplace crying or making a scene (which is a big debacle - a headache, and a problem for my career). I want to avoid that.
Maybe the only option is to notify security and get them to keep my parents out.
I feel so utterly trapped.
Are my responses, however short and unemotive, providing them Narcissistic Supply? They must.
October 29th. I'm not replying to a single text, email or phone call until October 29th. They can pull every trick in the book, but I'm not going for it.
Ironically, they're not doing anything for their case - a moment of Narcissistic Supply to them means that much more resolve for me to cut them completely, once and for all, out of my life. The whole family, cousins and all. (One day, I'll say, "Goodbye. May you revel in your own filth happily until the end of your lives. I'm gone!").
Will gladly take any other advice, dear ACoNs. I was exaggerating when I said I'd kill myself, but seriously - I really am at the end of my rope.
(Ozzy said it all best in "Crazy Train"):
Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate
Mental wounds not healing
Life's a bitter shame
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I've listened to preachers
I've listened to fools
I've watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role
Mental wounds still screaming
Driving me insane
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I know that things are going wrong for me
You gotta listen to my words
Yeah
Heirs of a cold war
That's what we've become
Inheriting troubles I'm mentally numb
Crazy, I just cannot bear
I'm living with something' that just isn't fair
Mental wounds not healing
Who and what's to blame
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train
I am gazing into my magic 8 ball. It tells me that as hard as it will be to remain NC after your first month, you will also acquire a sense of peace and autonomy.
ReplyDeleteYou will extend this deadline into two months.
And three and four.
And you will either get them to change their ways...
The odds of that are slim and none and slim just left town on a bus.
Or you will decide you just don't need all this bullshit.
Either way you will make a no win lose situation an even draw.
Thanks q. ;-) Appreciate this. Looking forward to getting off the crazy train!
DeleteIt's the intrusiveness that reeks of disorder - I mean showing up at a person's workplace (crying!) is a dick move. Intrusion is the method with my parents too, and I'm sorry to say that boundaries with an intruder duo like y(our) parents will bring forth more proof than you even need that boundaries are way lacking, way needed, and hard as fuck to maintain. For a very specific reason: you belong to them. That alone justifies any and all desperate grabbing in their minds. So if you feel invaded and betrayed, listen to those feelings. They are there to protect you.
ReplyDeleteThanks Upsi - I'm going to listen to the sage advice of TW (see below) and start treating my nut-bar parents like dangerous crazy people, which they are.
Delete(I'll listen to my feelings and protect myself! Thanks for understanding the madness - I feel less alone!). :-)
Reality Check: You've "set boundaries." In doing so, you have now triggered a Personality Disordered response: You are being stalked and ambushed IRL, living in chronic fear emotionally.
ReplyDeleteGo on back and re-read that last sentence. If anyone else was doing this, what would your response be? Would you allow your fear of a "scene" at work/in public to keep you from calling Security at your building, giving them a "Heads Up," a picture of the Perps and requesting they deal with this as it IS exactly within the scope of their employment? Would you hesitate to call the Police, ditto the "Heads Up" routine if some unwanted intruders were banging down the door at your home demanding admittance? Following you down the street? Harassing you in public? Repeatedly calling your place of employment or your home?
"But this is different." No, it's Criminal. Since you're operating from fear, a position of weakness/prey you're becoming even MORE of a "target" which is allowing the PD to control you and continue to do so simply through your fear of what they HAVE "done" already and what they MIGHT DO NEXT. Why do they do this? Because it WORKS.
If you had ANY doubts about just how shameless, disordered and potentially dangerous these people are, how well you've been trained to avoid a scene at ALL COSTS, those doubts have been soundly "answered." As have how it's left you feeling and responding. Behaviors trigger fear. That's exactly what your Perpetrators are banking on.
What you DO Control: See jonsi's Blog, "Open Your Eyes and See" for the Post, "Cease and Desist." There's a step-by-step guide.
What you DON'T Control: Them.
You have allowed them to continue to control your life by simply asking to be left in peace to live your own. No, they are NOT going to be struck by a bolt of "Insight" and acquiesce to ANY request on your part, no matter how simple. Or humane. They are pulling the predictable Ramp-Up that ensures you'll Back Down. There is NO further "talking" to them or anyone else outside the Legal Community that's going to make an impression on a PD'd person or their primary Ens.
Stalking and Ambushing are not only Criminal Behaviors, they are a form of Emotional Terrorism inflicted on the victim for the Perpetrator's edification. This is NOT about "you." It is about Power and Control, the tweaking of your fear response. Plain and simple. The Perpetrator(s) in this situation and their relationship or lack thereof to you does not mitigate the reality you are dealing with mentally disordered individuals who refuse to respect you but WILL RESPECT a higher authority. That is the ONLY "Authority" that has ever been successful at garnering their attention and enforcing sanctions. You failed to recognize any "scene" that may ensue is a reflection on the PD/Perp, NOT you. By being proactive now you will regain a sense of peace and order in your life sooner rather than later. This is NOT going to "get better." And the longer you allow this to persist, the more egregious the situation will become and the greater the toll to your well-being in every way. Yes, It's "THAT BAD" NOW. The time to process emotionally the acute outbreak of disordered behavior you've endured over these last few months alone will come later. Right now, realistically you are out of options you can exercise yourself or with the assistance of your DH. Your psychologist and the ACoN community, your IRL friends, the Legal Community will assist and support you. But you have to take the first steps necessary to create a life free from Stalking, Harassment and Emotional Terrorism. Please read "Cease and Desist" and implement those steps. You are NOT without recourse and living in chronic fear is hazardous to your health, your marriage, your employment, your sanity.
TW
Thanks TW - I actually needed a stern talking to, a reality check. You're absolutely right - thanks for being so strong on that front. Your voice came in loud and clear (bet you're great at 'talking people down' in crisis!).
DeleteWow... thanks. This all seems so clear to me now! :-) You're right - wow. Thank you so much for 'parenting' me in a way that (obviously!) I never got - you're right, I CAN and SHOULD do the right things, i.e. treat these crazies like the nut-jobs they are and stop giving them special treatment.
(Really, really appreciated - and I'll bet even more appreciated down the road as I implement the "cease and desist" steps).
Oh, yes, I know the "instant denial" well. There are several factors going on here. The first. most glaring one is the discounting of your "No". Huge red flag, that one. A person who discounts the word no is manipulative, has a selfish, even sinister agenda. Some of these things are classic crazy-making behaviors.
ReplyDeleteMy memory is a bit hazy at the moment, but some of these tactics sound familiar, perhaps something I'd read about in the book "the gift of fear". That book is mostly about protecting oneself from physical threats but there is a thorough list of manipulative "red flag" behaviors and this reminds me of some of them.
I'll look it up and write again if I find anything.
What TW said was my wake up call and my graduation into the nut bar world of the personality disordered. As bad as they can get, nothing sets them off like the defiance they feel from you putting distance between you and them.
ReplyDeleteThey turn from crazy to dangerous in the blink of an eye.
If I was ever a therapist and wanted to diagnose someone as either neurotic as opposed to having a full on personality disorder I think this would be my method. That and the contingency that the person I am treating is a family member and not the disordered person. Because you will never get a disordered person into therapy.
I hope that makes sense.
I really just wanted to say I love how you decorated the words to Ozzy's song.
Effing great.
Thanks, q! Crayons are surprisingly therapeutic! ;-)
Delete"Defiance" really is the perfect word, isn't it! And I like your radical therapy ideas - talk about making an easy diagnosis, eh? Right on.
"Are my responses, however short and unemotive, providing them Narcissistic Supply? They must." YES.
ReplyDeleteI can't add much more than the wonderful words of wisdom you've been offered above. But you've got to quit playing the game. Quit responding. Quit texting back. Slowly, slowly wean them off of you. Maybe your parent's are much more intense than mine (very likely so) but I've found that pushing back slowly helps (me more than them.)
Hang in there dear. And push back. Slowly. We've got your back.
Thanks Jessie! Yes, I would have to agree with you - a drastic step would be too much for me to handle all at once, and I also think it would overly provoke them.
DeleteI have a plan . . . just a couple more months. I have to get one thing taken care of before going NC (don't want to say what, just in case they're reading). Get all the ducks in a row, then NC (safely)!
Gaslighting, rewriting history, denial...whatever you want to call it. First off, accept that your father is not your NM's enabler! THEY'RE EQUAL PARTNERS! Just like with my NM, it took me a while to catch on because she's much more subtle than my raving lunatic NF but that makes her WAY more dangerous.
ReplyDeleteNext, for me, LC was a recipe for disaster. It left them with an opening to trample my wishy-washy boundaries and escalate the abuse.
Right from the get-go full on NC was like heaven to me. Now, peace and serenity reign supreme. I sleep better, I accomplish more and my physical health has improved rapidly.
IMO, BOTH of your parents are fucking crazy. Forget half measures. Alert security at work and take whatever steps are necessary to kick them outta your life for good!
Thanks Mulderfan - I hear you. I perhaps should elevate "EF" to "NF". Certainly since going LC, I've seen a much more N- side of him as an individual (as opposed to 1/2 a couple).
DeleteThe biggest "N" red flag that he's been waving since LC is the "refusal to apologise". He doesn't 'believe' in apologies - he's always stated that they are for the 'weak'. (Lovely character trait, eh? I understand now why I have next to no respect for either of my parents!).
Anyway, he's the one trying to 'patch things up' between NM and me, and yet he won't apologise, even contritely, in moments where social norms dictate he should. Not surprising, given his historical stance on apologies, but a starkly narcissistic move for someone I once viewed as the ineffectual partner of my tyrannical NM.
EF just got promoted to NF. Thanks for helping me to make the necessary mental transition, Mulderfan!
I used to think my beloved mum was one of NF's victims, although I realize in retrospect she either kept silent, made excuses for him or accused ME of upsetting HIM. That realization was the 1st in a painful series of "red pills" I had to swallow.
DeleteThe little red pills may have made the biggie, all they have to give me is pain, easier to swallow.
Little One, I've been following your Blog since it's inception. Your Post on Stalking caught my eye and as I watched the tactics ramp up, I felt increasingly anxious for you. I've been through this as well and remember, my perceptions of your situation are colored by my experiences, this medium itself and the changes that have taken place Legally since my PD Parent "Stalker From Hell" which would have afforded me far more options now than I had then. My apologies for sounding "Stern;" my goal was to simply afford a reality check. You know that whole frog-in-the-boiling-water scenario? We know things are pretty wonky but we don't realize how "hot" it's becoming until we're "bunny boiled" and end up with all kinds of adverse effects involving our employment, our DH, friends etc. who are are also being stalked via phone calls, "ambushes" etc. Your situation feels very familiar to me. It's not so much about doing things "right" as much as understanding the severity of your situation and realistically how fear (and our other normal, personal responses) impact our ability to clearly understand how truly awful and potentially dangerous the situation is: "Potential Danger" is not simply to our physical well-being; the emotional/psychological impact is equally devastating in it's own way and IMO leaves the longest Legacy.
ReplyDeleteI see how much you sincerely would like to have some sort of relationship with your PDM/En/FOO. Even a formal but distant one would "work" no? So you're trying to do all the "right" things-and IMO, you have. As soon as you set up your "nice, white picket fence" of boundaries, along came PDMomma (and EnD). She drove her front end loader right over your picket fence, backed up, dug a hole, buried the mess and left in a cloud of diesel fuel while ENDaddy worked as the "Flagman." There. Fixed THAT, huh? ;) Okaaay. So you're doing the whole Explain, Long Discussions, Sending EnDad links, info etc. and yup, he's "gettin' it" BUT no, as PdMomma's "attack dog" he's actin' all kinds of "interested" when his real agenda is info gathering for PDMomma and "feeling out" the situation for how he can manipulate YOU back to where you were so HE doesn't have to deal with HER. It's YOUR "responsibility" to fix his mess-he abdicated his responsibility long ago and that was HIS "choice," not your problem, responsibility although he'd sure like to off-load it onto you as he's done for years. He "seems" reasonable-no, his behavior says he's frantically trying to placate the PD in HIS life.
Your Achille's Heel was exactly mine: I DESPISE "scenes." Especially of the Public variety. When a PD already KNOWS "what works" they work it to death. I learned although it's beyond belief "embarrassing" to have to deal with them, I wasn't gonna die from from "Terminal Embarrassment" which allowed me to pick up the phone and call the Police. No one wants the cops at their place of employment or parked in their driveway-horror of horrors! Have the PDParent in (gasp!) handcuffs?! As long as those cuffs aren't on YOU, it's quite clear who's the Perp(s) and who's the "Victim." This is the ONLY "Authority" they "answer to," that achieves and retains the PD's "Attention." You have now demonstrated behaviorally you MEAN what you say and the time for "Discussion" has long since passed. They love Drama, until the Drama results in some significant negative consequences for them. Realistically, you are not in a position to impose consequences that will be of any real value: You've done all the "right" stuff and now it's time to bring in the Pros.
TW (Part 2 Next: My sincere apologies for being a Thread Hog)
Reading your post explains why low contact works for me. My mother won't visit my house when invited. She doesn't know where I work and wouldn't be bothered to get there if she did. I think this post is excellent for showing why different people can function with different levels of low contact and why people go no contact. I was chastised for holding a grudge. I kept trying to explain that their behavior does not change. If the incident happened yesterday that is not a grudge. I experienced the denial but fortunately my parents don't hunt me down. Setting boundaries is a great start and I agree with TW, would you put up with this from someone else?
ReplyDeleteOh Ruth, exactly! Smart of you to notice that!
DeleteSo I guess the old 'engulfing' and 'ignoring' types for NParents seems to hold up, eh?
Chances are if you've got the engulfing type, NC is the only option. If you have the ignoring type, LC is a viable choice!
My NPs generally ignore me as a form of abandonment BUT they also escalated the VERBAL assaults when I've tried LC.
DeleteI assume, NF would see LC as me trying to take control. In that situation it's almost like he ramps it up to see how much crap I'll take from him.
LC also involved me trying my damnedest to be detached and polite on the rare occasions when I saw them or we spoke on the phone. This killed me! I felt like I was selling my soul just by consenting to have any kind of relationship with my abusers.
These people abused me, their own daughter, and continue, without any sign of remorse, to deny my truth or show even the slightest bit of remorse.
But TW is right. We all have to find our own path.
I know that "sell-out" feeling. I really detest it. :p
DeleteUrgh. This is the hardest thing to do, isn't it? Getting away from abusive, controlling jerks for parents!
There's not much "out there" on Stalking by Parents. I couldn't find a thing in my searches, but everything I DID find regarding Stalking speaks to Personality Disorders as the underlying dynamic. (There was NO internet, PCs etc. when I was going through this and again, the laws have changed, finally, after enough familial injuries/deaths secondary to Stalking.)
ReplyDeleteI think of PDs/PD behaviors as existing on a continuum from Bad to Worse, yet! ;) The world of Mental Health seems to agree these people are Developmentally Arrested which makes sense to me, FWIW. You can not reason with a 2/3 yr. old: They want what they want when they want it. They are shameless in their "It's MINE!" even if they weren't playing with that toy when another child picked it up. Your PDMomma sees you as an object-not a person. Behaviors you or I wouldn't even consider engaging in as adults are of no consequence or meaning to them other than getting what they want; "scenes" are exciting and Drama-filled and of course, allow them to be the center of attention, aka "Supply." Most importantly, the behaviors are targeted to regain CONTROL. Her behavior is all about Ownership. You are NOT allowed to Individuate, you are an "extension" of her and hell hath no fury like a temper-tantrum throwing 3 yr. old. (or 63 yr. old.)
More importantly, your patient attempts to ask for space, for respect, for autonomy will NOT be respected in any way for one IMO major reason: PDs live in a very BLACK and WHITE World. Just like a child. Adult life is lived primarily in the grey areas of polarities as opposed to "This is All Good, this is All Baaad!" and you, Little One are being very, very "Baaadd." And must be punished and don't kid yourself, she's havin' a great time inflicting her "Power" OVER you. I believe this lack of understanding fully the implications of the extreme of PD Black and White Thinking doomed your efforts from their initiation and continue to perplex you regarding her (and his) "responses" which are effectively (and rightfully, IMO) pushing you further away.
There is NO "One Size Fits All" here; some PD parents completely ignore their "Baaaddd!" AC, others make probes, do the typical denigration campaigns/recruitment tactics etc. Then there's these really extreme responses which leave us terribly fearful, flummoxed and often frozen in disbelief/horror/embarrassment/HUH? When you find yourself fleeing down a street, jumping in your grocery cart at the store when you round the aisle corner and think "It's HER/THEM!" it's time to consider how seriously this is effecting you. And on the PD Continuum, how extremely disordered the behavior demonstrates regarding the severity of the PD.
You don't "have to" do anything right now-or ever. There is NO "right way." Your journey is yours alone and although ACoNS share similarities, we are all unique human beings with unique situations. Please understand you DO have options. The extreme Black and White thinking of your PD'd momma IMO will respond to nothing less than an authority figure in the form of a Security person at work or rolling up on her in a Black and White vehicle: That, she WILL get. Unfortunately, for some of us our only "option" eventually becomes that of a Legal nature.
Ultimately, your personal safety and security trumps every other consideration, IMO and experience.
TW (Again, my apologies for thread hogging, but I do hope this helps in some way. Thanks.)
Thank you so much, TW! I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this! I hope using the word 'stern' wasn't read as a negative - it was like 'proper parenting', something I never got, and frankly, something I find extraordinarily refreshing! ;-) So I thank you sincerely for writing this.
DeleteYou're completely right about the Black/White thinking. It's funny; I 'knew' that, but I didn't 'apply' it to my efforts. Thanks for pointing out why I was wasting my breath - if I didn't ever see that what I was doing was appealing to the 'grey' areas (to which my parents are blind), I don't think I would be able to 'give up' without at least 'one more try' (which we all know means "several" more tries!).
Also, laughed profusely at the front-end loader analogy (so did DH)! Wow - PERFECT imagery! Ha ha ha! Flagperson Father was hilarious (he'd look great in a safety vest and yellow hard helmet, ha ha!).
No, this really does explain so much - every time I draw a line in the sand, and defend it, I get met with larger and larger artillery. That's why I feel so helpless - I just can't build a strong enough defense!
I have this theory (and apologies if it's inelegant and a weird analogy...): say you're betting on the outcome of some underground, everything legal "MMA"-style fight club. You've got the muscular, towering hulk tough-guy in the corner, replete with facial piercings and a surgically altered forked tongue. In the opposite corner is a 150lb skinny dude with shifty eyes, tousled hair. He's wearing a straight jacket, and is accompanied by three 'handlers' with Tasers....
I would bet on the skinny insane one. You can't beat 'crazy'. You can't anticipate crazy's next move. You can't rule out anything when it comes to crazy. And you also can't rely on them to play by the rules or not take things 'too far'.
I live in a city. I've seen 5 large, strong police officers struggling to subdue a 120lb meth addict. Can't beat crazy.
And that's why I feel so trapped and defeated. I am not sufficiently crazy enough to go toe-to-toe with my parents, though I've been trying this whole time (slowly dying of exhaustion).
You know, the security guards at my workplace look awfully bored sometimes. Maybe they'd enjoy a new challenge! ;-)
Thanks again (and to everyone who's commented, as well!). Much love to you all - so very much appreciate the support and concern.
xoxo QG
You are definitely providing them with supply by responding. ANY attention, positive or negative, is supply to an N. They love the negative attention even more because it shows them they still have the power to get your goat. It's about boundaries. We set boundaries, and our Ns immediately ignore them. Then we wind up not enforcing our own boundary when we respond. It's almost a game to them, to see if you mean what you say, or if they can somehow get you to break down and give up your boundaries. Never let them break you down, once they learn they can, they see you as weak and will keep it up, knowing if they nag you long enough they can get you to pay attention to them and respond.
ReplyDeleteNs NEVER respect other people's boundaries, they are the only ones allowed to make the rules. If you make a rule, it's like a direct challenge to them to break it, and gloat because they think there's nothing you can do about it. A lot of them will even tell you you can't tell them what to do, or you're not gonna boss them around. They deliberately defy you. The only way to get our boundaries respected is to be willing to enforce them and enforce consequences for breaking them.
Congratulations on setting a really strong boundary with a deadline. If you want to really give them something to think about, and you're okay with telling them you are taking a one month breather and they are not to contact you during that time, try throwing in that every time they disrespect your request and contact you, you will add another week to your "vacation."
I know it might feel embarrassing to call security at work and "make a scene" but remember your Nrents are going to make a scene anyway if you don't, and that's what security is there for, when stalkers, batterers, and abusers show up to harass the employees. Your parents are no different than an abusive husband showing up at his wife's job to upset her and possibly make her lose her job, and they shouldn't be treated any differently.
If they call you to excess or show up at your house, I'd call the police. If having the police show up doesn't work, you could probably have them charged with aggravated harassment, stalking, trespassing, etc. You might want to look into a restraining order if they keep pushing. Also, sometimes having your lawyer write a cease and desist letter scares them off without having to take it any further and have them arrested. Many Ns are cowards when it comes to the possibility of being arrested or legal action being taken, and this does cause many of them to back off. LC is a confusing concept to them since they only deal in extremes, that's why most of us find it doesn't work and wind up going NC. But Ns usually will not stop until they see you really mean business about enforcing your boundaries. Part of that is never talking to them unless it's through attorneys (not therapists, not ministers, not Flying Monkey relatives)~ only attorneys or the police. I know how upsetting this is, been there, done that! I'm keeping you in prayer, please update us when you can. And stay strong~ you can do this!
Thank you Sister Renee!
DeleteWow - so many good nuggets of advice! The paragraph on "only THEY can make rules!" and how setting boundaries only sets them off is so true - it's exactly what I've experienced.
I'm TOTALLY going to announce the "one month vacation" thing, with the threat of "extra weeks added on"!
I'll update you for sure! Thanks so very much for remembering me in your prayers - I feel so loved! :-)
QG
QG,
ReplyDeleteThis is EXACTLY how it played out with my parents. I said I needed space. They continued to send emails. It stopped briefly (just enough to make me think they got the message.) Then their next email was to tell us all about their good news, and then ended the message with "How's that not talking to anyone working out?"
I told them I needed space and I meant it. We viewed their last contact as harassment and went to the police. They told my husband it just sounded like a parent wanting to reconnect with their child. Talk about headgames! I can't even get legal protection?!? You're just trying to protect yourself, yet nobody takes you seriously. You will feel like a complete asshole and you will wonder all over again if you're "overreacting."
Junping off the crazy train hurts like hell - lots of bumps, bruises and rocks get thrown at you. But it will get better.
HANG IN THERE!
-Grey
Oh yes, Grey! That sounds exactly like it!
DeleteThe "overreaction" is exactly what messes with my head. I've been accused of being "over-sensitive" and of "overreacting" so often that it's virtually impossible to ignore that (crazy) train of thought!
You know - I'm starting to have hope. The more I hear from all of you, and the more times my parents do stupid, awful things, the more resolve I have. It grows. Same for my DH - he picked up on the patterns last year (it takes awhile for a non-ACoN to see it for themselves - now he notices sleights that I don't!). We figure that when the time is right, and that time is coming up really fast, there's going to be a proverbial final straw (from our end more than theirs). Then I won't care about looking for a soft row of bushes to leap into - we'll be jumping off that train onto rocks if we have to! ;-)
Respectfully, before you can plant your garden, it helps a whole lot to prepare the soil. In view of the experiences you've outlined please consider a consult with a Family Attorney who also has Criminal experience or a firm that offers both in this "interim period." The first consult is generally gratis-consider it a "Fact Finding Mission." My sense is you're going to be far better "prepared" by having an attorney write your NC letter if this is the route you're contemplating. (Even if you're not, at least you'll have some legal facts to consider.) In this way, you've ensured you've started the written "trail"-in the legal world, if it hasn't been written, it hasn't been said and that's just a fact. The attorney will keep the correspondence short, sweet, LEGALLY VALID in terms of wording, it's actual physical delivery etc. It doesn't even have to be a "Cease and Desist" although it will cover your Declaration of Independence (NC) and likely the C&D aspect as well. At your initial freebie, ask what the fee would be to write such a letter for you-you'd be surprised how inexpensive it really is, as well as saving you so much BS and $$ down the road when the NPs violate it. Your legal credibility in terms of "getting it right" from a legal POV from the beginning will have been established. The first time the NPs attempt to contact you or anyone else (employers/friends/neighbors etc.) through any means (in person/electronically/carrier pigeon etc.) you call Law Enforcement and armed with the letter written by the attorney, you stand a much higher probability of an arrest and follow-through.
ReplyDeleteNo, you're NOT "over-reacting." You're being Pro-Active and just like preventive maintenance on your house, your car, your health, it's a whole lot less expensive in every way to anticipate a potential "problem" before it becomes a major mess.
Stealth and ambush work for AC's as well. And correct legal assistance/facts are IMO invaluable. There's nothing you can tell an attorney who's been around for awhile that will shock or surprise them, especially when it comes to dealing with PDs: They're the bane of every professional's existence as well.
TW
Ha ha, I talked to a friend (a lawyer); she fell out of her chair in shock! ;-)
DeleteEven the therapists and psychologists I interviewed were bowled over (and uncharacteristically excited to take my 'case'!). ;-) At least my life is good for something - entertainment!
My friend (the brilliant, experienced, established lawyer) is going to set me up with the best family law attorney in the city. The trouble is that I'm skint - we have to save up first (there's no free consultation at this level). But we're definitely leaning that way. My biggest concern is that my crazy NParents will pull the "grandparent's rights" crap on me the second they find out I'm pregnant (which isn't now, but in the next few years...). That was the motivation for seeking legal counsel. Lawyer friend says drafting up a legal document about this now is better than later, so that's the plan.
Was really hoping this blog would attract some Family Law specialists from around the world, so we'd all know who to go to should we need their services.
My best advice is to make friends with a lawyer (of any kind) and get them to recommend the appropriate people to you - they know who is good!
WOO HOO! Your "brilliant, experienced, established" lawyer friend-she works in Corporate? ;)
ReplyDeleteGood for you!
TW
Yeah, she works in an entirely different field than Family Law, but knows the other lawyers. She's a really wonderful lady. ;-)
DeleteTundra Woman is right on the money! Many great suggestions there, and yes, you do want to get a paper trail started, print out emails, keep a log of phone calls or recordings of messages, etc. I'm so glad you're making contact with an attorney who can hopefully get that letter on its way.
ReplyDeleteFor Grey and anyone not taken seriously by the police, if you do not have an attorney, you can write your own "cease and desist" letter. It's not as intimidating to the Ns as an attorney's letter threatening or implying legal action, but it is proof to the police that you requested to be left alone. I would guess the "requirements" differ in different locales, so I'd do whatever research I could, even call the police dept and ask what you need to put in the letter. When I sent mine, I made it very clear that my psychofather was NOT to contact me, my husband, or our children in any way or I would take further legal action. I then kept a couple of copies and mailed the letter certified mail, return receipt requested, which required him to sign for it and his signature to be returned by mail to me. In the body of the letter, I included the certified mail receipt number to prove the signature went with that letter. I kept the letter short and sweet, no explanations, arguing, etc. just "you are hereby instructed not to contact (NAMES) in person, by phone, by email, by letter, or in any other way from this date forward " or something similar.
All of this proved he received the letter as written and would have been what the police would need in my jurisdiction to arrest him for harassment if he continued to contact us. I was told that one of the requirements for a harassment charge is that you have to have TOLD the perp not to contact you again; then, if he does, they can charge him, but if you haven't told him not to contact you, then apparently the police can't charge him. I don't know if this is true everywhere. And of course, it helps to be able to prove you told him, hence the certified letter.
This worked in my case, PF was intimidated by the idea of legal action and he knew I was setting him up when he got the certified letter. He did not contact us again for 10 years. If it doesn't work, you can always go for the lawyer. Either way, being able to prove the N was told not to contact you helps your case. Despite what some police depts. might think, we all have the right to be left alone if we wish to be. Unfortunately, it shouldn't be necessary since they are paid to protect us, but we might have to be willing to fight for that right.
Thanks for this wonderful tip, Sister Renee!
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