Please help build a FAQ page for The ACoN Society!
Comment below (or via email - see side bar) with questions, i.e.:
- Does my NParent know that how they treat me is wrong?
- Are they accidentally hurting me, or is it 'on purpose'?
- Can my NParent change?
- Is it possible my NParent loves me still, even though they are abusive?
- Why won't my other parent do something to help me?!
- Is it morally/ethically/spiritually wrong of me to go 'no-contact' with my NParents?!
- What is 'no-contact' anyway?
- How do I know if my parent has NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) or not? Who diagnoses that? And is there treatment for it? What's the success rate?
If you are a seasoned ACoN veteran, please comment below with answers, or with commonly asked questions followed by answers!
Help preserve your collective wisdom for the benefit of fellow ACoNs!
I've probably missed a dozen or so common ones - your knowledge is needed!
*Special thanks to Ruth for suggesting the inclusion of a FAQ page!*
Thank you so much for including a link to my website Luke 17:3 Ministries and all your kind words about the site and my book. I am enjoying your blog and your articles, they are so helpful! I have a FAQ page on my site that I'd like to contribute to your FAQ page if you think it would be helpful. It's short but sweet~
ReplyDeleteFAQ About Abusive, Narcissistic, And Psychopathic Relatives
Luke 17:3 Ministries FAQ~ Answers to the questions we get the most about Abusers/Narcissists/and Psychopathic Relatives:
1. Yes, they know what they're doing.
2. Yes, they know they're hurting you.
3. Yes, they're doing it on purpose.
4. Yes, they can control it. They do whenever they want to impress someone.
5. Yes, they could stop if they wanted to.
6. No, they don't love you, even if they say they do (Actions speak louder than words). They do not feel love, empathy, compassion or remorse. Your relationship is not about love. It's about control, dominance, power, attention, "respect", admiration, subservience.
7. No, you cannot change them. You can only change yourself.
8. Yes, there is something you can do. GET OUT. I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's the answer. If it takes you years to accept this, you will always regret those lost years that you could have spent living a joyful life.
"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty"...2 Corinthians 6:17-18.
I hope this blesses someone who needs some answers. God bless you Quercus, when many of us ACONS join together and share our experiences, we can win the battle and help many others <3
Thank you so much, Sister Renee! This has made my day! :-) May God continue to bless you and Luke 17:3 Ministries, a real bright light for ACoNs wandering cyberspace looking for answers!
DeleteThese questions are asked by people who are still looking for reasons to excuse dysfunctional behaviour. If you seek these answers it's because you haven't accepted the basic truth: They will never change because they see no reason to change.
ReplyDeleteNarcissists don't spend hours online trying to find a way to improve their relationships. If you find yourself searching for these answers, it's because you are a victim and your search for answers is just denial.
I don't know or care why my NPs did what they did and that's what set me free.
I have a counter-point:
DeleteI really needed to ask these questions, vague answers notwithstanding, in order to make sense of my own circumstances (which, particularly in the beginning, were largely defined by my parents' attitudes and views).
Now that I'm older and (hopefully) somewhat wiser, I agree more so with Mulderfan's viewpoint (and I very much like Sister Renee's answers-without-questions for the same reason!).
But in the beginning of my journey, I needed these FAQs to understand my parent's pathology and thus my own reactionary adaptations to it (a cause-and-effect style of analysis).
I think that if you are naturally 'stronger', or 'stronger' as a result of experience, you can bypass virtually all of the "WHY'S" and go straight to the "It Doesn't Excuse A Thing or Matter to Me!" thought processes.
But for neophyte ACoNs, I believe these questions can be essential for their acceptance that the PROBLEMS lie squarely on the shoulders of the diseased, vis-a-vis, the parent and not the child!
So unless you're as certain as Mulderfan as to who the problem is in your family, you might want to ask a few questions to rule out the possibility that you might be the problem (you're not - believe us!).
So in closing, I think if you're a seasoned vet and you're still asking these questions, Mulderfan has a good point - stop excusing their behaviour.
But if you're still working it out, still new to the "ACoN world", I believe that these questions have a wholly different value in that they serve as checks and balances to gently, but convincingly, teach your brain to reassess a situation that you've been programmed to view a specific way your whole life.
(Not everyone can instantly understand what Mulderfan does. I didn't - I needed those FAQs! Now, I see them differently, which is why I need help remembering what the questions were!).
I don't want anyone to think that by asking questions they're doing themselves a disservice. It's always imperative to question life - question everything!
But at some point, you'll stop asking the same questions (this is where Mulderfan's view fits in). You'll be on your way towards "graduation" from ACoN-U!
Clarification:
DeleteI didn't "instantly" understand, that's why there are over 200 posts on my blog!
When I finally understood, I didn't "accept" which was my denial phase and coincided with my attempts at LC.
Very recently, I was able to accept my parents as they are, while finally admitting, a healthy relationship is not possible. Then, I simply let go and went full NC.
I understand now, my search for answers still left my NPs with all of the power. Whenever they were in my thoughts, even without knowing it, they still controlled me.
My sense is, that you and many of your readers already know the answers.
I owe my escape to sanity to my fellow bloggers, especially my beloved friends, Ruth and Upsi. Renee's articles and personal messages have also guided me on my journey.
Thanks Mulderfan!
DeleteYou know, I'm still in the 'middle' of the ACoN journey, if you consider it one with a beginning and an end (the end being where you are - the total realization that a healthy relationship isn't possible, that it had nothing to do with you or your actions, and acceptance that your FOO is poo!). :-)
I was wondering about the 'stages' of the ACoN journey. I had a conversation with Ruth about it, actually. One of the main reasons I wanted to start The ACoN Society was because of 'burnout' that comes at the end of the ACoN experience - ACoNs who start to step away from their online experience because they've gone full-circle with the questions, thoughts and processes and are ready to 'move on' with their lives! (I look forward to this - hoping someone will take over this blog for me one day!).
In your opinion (and this would make a fantastic post!), what are the distinct 'stages' that the ACoN goes through? (From the realization of their parent's NPD, to their acceptance and 'moving on')?
Would really love to have a seasoned ACoN map out the journey! :-)
(Also I agree wholeheartedly with your statement "You and many of your readers already know the answers.")
DeleteYep. I think you're right. Whether or not I'm ready to accept them permanently is a different story! I have accepted 99% of it, but then I wake up each day with doubts. I have to do less convincing each time, but the 'solidity' of my thoughts hasn't quite come. But every day I get closer and closer to that eventuality! :-)
(This is why I'd love to hear ACoNs at the ends of their journey explain the 'steps' - it might vary person-to-person, but as Ruth pointed out to me, there's great similarities on the paths we choose to tread!)
Having grieved the loss of my husband a few years ago, I can definitely say the stages very closely resemble the stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
DeleteMost of the stages are easy to understand. I believe the bargaining comes when we attempt to change the dynamic by going LC.
As with grief, we all experience them in a different order and at a different pace.
Bless you Sister Renee. You've been a guiding light for us. And thank you Quercus for collating things here as well.
ReplyDeleteThank you Quercus and Caliban, and Hi! Mulderfan :-) God bless you all. I think we all go through years of trying to figure out why, maybe in the hopes of being able to make it better. It takes a long time to realize that is not in our power. Somewhere in my writings I tell the story of a get-together I was at years ago where we were discussing our abusive parents. One of the guests happened to be a psychologist, and another guest asked the $64,000 Question~ WHY does her father act this way? The psychologist said, "If you really want to know, I can give you the answer in three words." Of course we all wanted to know, because we had all been asking ourselves that same question for years. So he gave us the answer~ "Because it works." You could have heard a pin drop as we all absorbed that one.
ReplyDeleteOne of the biggest problems I believe normal people have is expecting narcissists and psychopaths to behave like normal people. We think if we keep being nice to them, they'll be nice to us too. We repeat old platitudes to ourselves, like we can "catch more flies with honey," blah, blah, blah. We think they love us; after all, it's a huge step to internalize that a parent, who is supposed to love us, doesn't. We think they feel love like normal people do, we think there's some good in everyone (there isn't), we think they care about us, we think they want to get along and live in peace. They don't.
Narcissists and psychopaths are motivated by power, admiration, "respect," dominance and control, and what they can get out of us by way of using us for favors, money, credibility with others, etc. They are predators, who think of us as weak for loving them and letting them get away with abusing us. Like the psychologist said, they behave the way they do because it works for THEM, it gets them what THEY want, not what WE incorrectly assume they want. They are not sorry for causing pain, they LOVE fighting, manipulating, lying and fooling us, they are turned on by seeing us upset and hurt and knowing they have so much power over us.
Once we stop deluding ourselves about their true nature and what they really are, accept that they are NOT "normal" human beings, but actually EVIL, stop expecting them to act and react like normal people, and realize that they are malicious and WANT to hurt us, our options become clearer and we are well on the way to a healthy abuser-free life.
"Because it works"...EXACTLY Renee!
DeleteMy NFOO never suffered any consequences for their actions. Their favourite doormat(me) just kept coming back and lying down on the floor. Why change when things are working just fine for you?
I finally realized I was their unwitting enabler. The alcoholic's enabler supplies them with booze, makes excuses for them, and so on. I kept my abusers supplied with a victim, made excuses for them and went back for more!
The hardest step was to accept my abusers exactly as they are, know that they'll NEVER change and walk away.
Now, I no longer care how they got that way or why they do what they do. As Renee says, they're simply evil and I'm better off without them in my life.
Mulderfan, I think I'm stuck in that loop you were talking about (the denial cycling). I read Sister Renee's comment, then yours, and now I'm thinking, "My Mom isn't that bad. She's not evil... Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion." I know she won't change, but maybe I can handle her, especially now, armed with all this knowledge....?!
Delete(Help! Advice please? Where's the flawed logic? I can't see it all of a sudden!)
(How long did your denial cycle last again?!)
Yikes, QG, I had these exact thoughts today: "but maybe I can handle her". You know, not put up with her, or tolerate her, but that I'm...STRONGER than her. I want to be stong enough to resist her shit. I want to be stong enough that she doesn't get to me. I don't want to go NC, because I feel like in some way she wins...not that I care about winning...but that she gets my family and has exiled me to the island of no return. Yes, it's quiter there, but I don't like that I somehow feel NC would be stepping aside for her. I don't know. That feels horrible to say. I know it's not the "right thing" to say. But it really, really, really irrates me that she can get to me and that I can't control my reactions to her. That choosing to not be around her might be my only option.
DeleteI hear you, Jessie!!!
DeleteWouldn't it be fantastic to 'win one'?! Just one circumstance where we come out on top! Where we get what we want for a change!
Part of my brain is screaming at me right now. As my psychologist keeps saying, "You'll play a game you cannot win." He says it very clearly, very ominously - ANY interaction means defeat. She will always have a leg up on me, I guess.
I can't control a bloody thing around her. She can pull strings I didn't even know I had, even now!!! She is the only situation in which I lose myself.
Sounds like enough of a reason already to steer clear.
Is it ego? Is it purely arrogance, or competition? If I was the victor, however pointless the victory, I think I would feel so good...!
However, I am wondering if the only way to defeat the narcissist is to beat them at their own game. And that means going to the dark side - too high a price to pay!
I first discovered the "diagnosis" in November of 2008 and began asserting myself in early 2009. I tried varying degrees of low contact but my attempts to establish boundaries only escalated their abuse.
DeleteBy May of 2011 I began allowing them to contact me only via snail mail and, at first, attempted to make them understand my viewpoint. I quickly realized I couldn't make them "listen" even in a letter.
May of this year was my NM's 90th birthday and, both my daughter and I felt guilty about missing it, so we risked a visit, which was a disaster. Sensing we were completely done, NF phoned leaving a message with a tearful "hearfelt" apology and saying he didn't want to lose us. Even though he had NEVER apologized before, I was very guarded but my poor daughter fell for it, so for her sake I tried LC one last time.
When I called to wish NF a happy father's Day this past June, he reverted to form and then some. I said, "I don't want to do this anymore." and have had no contact since.
Having said all that, I saw my 1st counselor about issues with my NPs in 1985! He indicated that my NFOO was pretty weird, so we lasted for only a few sessions. Over the years I've seen several counselors and even a psychiatrist. They've pretty much all said the same thing...I'm sane, my family's screwy.
I stumbled across Upsi, who started blogging about the same time I did. As you know, when you stumble across one blog it leads to another, and another, and another. A huge turning point was when Renee personally answered an email I sent via her Luke Ministries website. All of a sudden, through the blogs and Renee's writings I realized the full extent of the madness and what it had done to my life, but it still took time to completely break free.
Somewhere during this process I began to develop a kind of emotional detachment and soon realized I simply didn't love my parents anymore. At this point, I can honestly say, I feel nothing...no love, guilt, shame, anger or sense of responsibility. They are what they are, and I doubt that they were ever capable of loving me.
If you're writing this blog and asking these questions you mother is "that bad". At 1st I struggled with Renee's idea of "evil" but why else would a person deliberately try to find the nastiest most hurtful things to say to their own child?
Don't wait until you're my age(66), start living NOW!
It's not a game or a war, but if you want to see it as a competition, the only way to defeat them is to walk away and deprive them of all their fun.
DeleteYou can bet, my NF is absolutely furious that he no longer has me to kick around. Right now my NPs think they're punishing me with their silence.
For the 1st time in my life, I have complete control!
Love your wisdom, Mulderfan!!! Thanks for being so generous and sharing this with me and others. It is incredibly helpful - I don't think I can quite articulate just how precious all this insight is to me!
Delete:-)
My "generosity" is a bit self-serving. In AA we find that sharing our experiences with others is the best way to help ourselves. Win-Win!
DeleteGlad to help and thanks for the validation.
If it is all right with you, I want to tackle these in a post and then link back.
ReplyDeleteRuth
YES! :D Thanks Ruth!
DeleteHi Everyone, Wow, this discussion is getting interesting :-) I'd love to add a couple of points, if I may.
ReplyDeleteJessie you said "But it really, really, really irrates me that she can get to me and that I can't control my reactions to her. That choosing to not be around her might be my only option." I think many of us feel this way and let these feelings keep us in bondage. We think we are flawed for not being able to keep overlooking and tolerating. But let me ask you something~ How many REAL friends and long~term, healthy relationships does your abuser have? In other words, how many OTHER PEOPLE (normal, healthy people, not those who might be enmeshed in her dysfunction)react well to her? How many think there's nothing wrong with her, she's fine, and have nice, long-term interaction with her? As opposed to how many have been in and out of her life over the years?
I don't know about you, but in my FOO when I added it up, there were literally dozens more in the "Revolving Door of Relationships" my Nrents had, who dumped them when they showed their true colors and became too much to deal with, than those who agreed with them, supported them, and stayed. WE are not the problem here. THEY are, and plenty of other people think so, too. It is NORMAL to be upset and angry and react with anger at being mistreated. It would be abnormal not to. Everybody else eventually dumps them. So why is there something wrong with us if we dump them too?
Quercus, your psychologist is 100% right~ any interaction means defeat, it means the N wins. "Is it ego? Is it purely arrogance, or competition? If I was the victor, however pointless the victory, I think I would feel so good...!" I read a fantastic article on winning by going No Contact, I think it was on the DONM site, I'd love to find it again. The truth is, you are not "losing" or "running away" or "conceding defeat" by going NC. It's the only thing that actually makes you the victor!
Think of what Ns are always trying to get from us~ Narcissistic Supply. Besides using us for money, favors, credibility, etc., their number one goal is admiration, respect and attention, attention being at the top of the list. What most normies don't realize it that is doesn't matter whether the attention is positive or negative~ Ns are sucking Supply from us whether we are complimenting them or yelling at them. Either way, they win. In fact, they love negative attention even better~ because it's a power-trip, proves to them that they have the power to get us all worked up and play us like puppets. The only solution to this is NO ATTENTION. That's how WE win. When you ignore an N, it's the worst thing you can do to him, it drives them batty.
Ns are used to being the boss in their relationships. If they decide to stop speaking to us, snub us, disown us, we have no choice. And when they up and decide to UN-disown us and reel us back in, they still think we have no choice but to meekly go along with whatever they want. They have always set the parameters for the relationship, and we have sheepishly let them.
But when we go No Contact, suddenly the tables are turned. WE are taking the power in the relationship, WE are now making the choices, we're claiming our freedom against their wishes. Now WE are the boss, and THEY have no choice. It's the ultimate power play, the final victory, and WE have it. Nothing sends a stronger message to an N. Whether it's ego, arrogance, or competition, or just self-preservation, protection, and freedom, the only thing that truly gives the victory to us is going No Contact. We just have to look at it as the victory it is instead of a defeat, it takes every bit of power away from the N, and there's nothing he can do about it. Hope this helps look at it from a different perspective :-)
I love this perspective! I will happily 'ignore' my NM - that should take care of the feelings I have of wanting to 'win one', too!
DeleteThanks Sister Renee! :-)
I think the message No Contact sends to Ns is that we no longer care and they just don't matter anymore. That's why it's such a gigantic blow to their egos.
ReplyDeleteI wrote my answer on my blog. If you think it is ok, I can post it here too. http://weareone-ruth.blogspot.com/2012/09/answering-questions.html
ReplyDeleteIt was an interesting to put all those questions together at one time.