Thursday 25 October 2012

Doxing and the ACoN - an opinion

by Quercus

"Doxing" - if you haven't heard the term prior to now, chances are you will. We all know how much "The Media" likes to get its sensationalizing hands on new terms and trends!

Please have a gander at the following CBC news article on doxing if you'd like a more thorough description. An excerpt from "Online vigilantes: Is 'doxing' a neighbourhood watch or dangerous witch hunt?" by Janet Davidson of CBC News:
Hackers and others who "dox" — or poke through internet documents to try to reveal real-life names behind anonymous identities — have been rooting around on the internet for a while.
'At its worst, it could be a kind of vigilantism.'—David Murakami Wood
If you follow Mulderfan's blog, you'll have seen that last week she had a former student of hers 'help her' by being ever so concerned about Mulderfan's supposed internet security. Whether it was well-intentioned, some sort of bizarre opportunity to battle for supremacy over an authority figure, a mixture of both, or simply a 'troll' being rotten for the sake of some good ol' fashioned negative attention (hey, if you can't get positive attention...! Us ACoNs can certainly relate to having less than supportive FOOs ourselves!), it still caused dear Mulderfan some anxiety and confusion, no doubt.

I had several points I wanted to make on this subject.

1. Is there really anything wrong with remaining anonymous on a personal blog?

No, there isn't. For starters, there were an estimated 156 000 000 (that's 156 million!) blogs in existence in February of 2011 (reference). I don't know about you, and maybe this is my latent narcissism speaking, but of the 156 million personal blogs out there, there are probably only 100 or so that I could care enough to read once, let alone to add to my blogger reader list.

I don't care if my neighbour blogs, or what they blog about. I can think of 40 people right this instant whose personal thoughts would interest me less than a book of 'for fun' calculus problems. Are they anonymous? Could they be talking about me? I don't know, I honestly don't care (unless it becomes a criminal or legal issue), and my time on earth is too short and too precious to waste on such an endeavour. I would rather nap out of boredom than try to 'dox' some former teacher's personal blog, myself. Maybe my teachers weren't as enigmatic as Mulderfan was, and are therefore so terribly tedious that I could not waste a single second trying to track them down. Onwards and upwards instead, to bigger and more important issues!

2. Is there really anything wrong with 'doxing'?

Yes, there is, if it's done outside of the legal system. The legal system exists for a reason - it's to protect us. It's something WE as a PEOPLE have collectively supported, developed and rely upon to keep our societies functional. It is NOT a group of adults that needs to be challenged - it's something we all accept as an essential construct to keep the world turning. If the walls of civilization come crashing down, you can bet your ass that your ISO will be one of the first things to go. It isn't free or cheap to keep the internet running, you know!
Hacking the identity of child pornographers, criminals, even cyber bullies in order to protect and serve the public is the domain of the POLICE. The police should, and probably do, snap up the skilled 'doxers' out there and put them to good use. We all know that the internet is mostly porn, and that the porn industry is lucrative and exploitative, and that vulnerable people and children are preyed upon for the benefit of organized crime. Here is a scenario where 'doxing' suddenly becomes important and relevant.
If you want to go vigilante and flex your coding muscle (and you're looking for my blessing, which I don't see why you would), then go after the child predators. Please. And then present your findings to the FBI or RCMP or whomever. And ask for a job. I'd love your skills to be put to use on ANYTHING other than hacking the identity of another everyday citizen with a personal blog! Seriously - priorities, people! If you've got skills, change our world for the better! Enlist in the justice system - I'll happily pay taxes to keep you employed, provided you've been thoroughly trained and educated and are overseen by trustworthy civil servants.

3. Do any of us ACoNs actually need to know Mulderfan's, or any other anonymous ACoN's, identity?

This is an important consideration - the answer is an EMPHATIC no! Again, unless there is a criminal investigation underway by the sort of people trained, educated and trusted to do rigourous and legal investigation (i.e. the FUZZ), Mulderfan's real name, address, shoe size, favourite meal, eye colour and bathroom habits are entirely IRRELEVANT! She's a prolific blogger on the subject of familial narcissism who has contributed greatly to the knowledge and support of other like-minded somewhat-secretive individuals who self-identify as ACoNs. She is a valued and respected member of a society, digital or otherwise, who I personally hold in high regard. Knowing Mulderfan exists makes my existence better. I don't have the privilege of knowing Mulderfan in 'real life', but I don't really need to. I would sincerely like the pupil who was 'helping' her to know that a person can be of real value and benefit solely for the writings they provide.

Take, for example, this list of "Anonymously Published Works" on Wikipedia. Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight are two famous, nay, pivotal and momentous works of literature that have shaped the collective fabric of Western society, written anonymously. Note that this list does NOT include famous works published under pseudonyms or pen names (that list is here, and is by no means exhaustive - it doesn't even include Mark Twain!).

Do we care who wrote these famous works? Sure, a few people are very curious and would like to know. But they're not common, and they hide out in the dusty recesses of university art history departments.

Do the vast majority of people care? Of course not! What is of value is not WHO but WHAT. This is an important point - is it important to be able to look up old photos of Bill Gates and find out what gifts he was given for his 5th birthday? Or is it more important to speak on what Bill Gates has contributed to society? In 100 years, will people even remember his name? I can guarantee that no one will care what he did before computers. And with all due respect to Mulderfan and my fellow ACoNs, we're not as interesting. No one cares who we are except us, and we're happy with the status quo of pseudonyms as they serve our purposes rather well.

4. Is anonymity a good thing?

YES! Good heavens, if people couldn't remain anonymous, the entire justice system would grind to a halt! Witness Protection Program, anyone? Whistle-blowers standing up for the rights of the exploited? How about in the cases of benevolent giving - is it okay to be an anonymous donor? What about if you gave a kidney and wished to remain anonymous? There are so many instances where anonymity is a brilliant or essential option. Here's another example - Mulderfan's anonymous student. How would they enjoy being outed? Obviously they wouldn't for some reason or another, or they'd have used their real name. Note that none of us ACoNs have gone vigilante on their butt and hacked them (no, that's not a threat - it's a point: we value anonymity and would like to prove it by not destroying someone else's). Mulderfan's anonymous student's points are every bit as valid as they would be if she or he had used their real name. Chew on that. Why out Mulderfan?

5. Do ACoNs fear having to stand to public account for their blogs?

Probably not! We're not making up stories or lying - we're telling the stories of our lives, anonymously, to other people with similar backgrounds as a means to bring about healing! In many cases, the very act of blogging was recommended to us by health care professionals.
In fact, the details of our lives ARE available. Our mental health records can be subpoenaed by any number of government agencies for the good of our society, if needed. The people who can have legal access to that information are again accredited, educated, appointed or elected officials who have proven themselves to be trustworthy to society as a whole. No system is perfect, but it is infinitely better than the lack of a system. (All of us sitting on our butts blogging, hacking, typing are not as fit or strong as your average muscle-bound gym monkey; when the walls of society come tumbling down, the folks with the real advantage will NOT be the computer savvy! Be careful not to collapse the system that feeds, friends!).

6. So why do I blog under the name of "Quercus" and not my real name?

Easy. I never got ANY privacy as a child. Not physically, but most importantly, not emotionally or mentally. My thoughts were policed (this is easy to do on a child - they have simplistic thoughts that can readily be 'read' right off their faces). My emotions were controlled; much like a puppy getting a spritz of water to the face every time it pees on the carpet, an expression of ANYTHING other than a smile (yes, that includes a NEUTRAL affect! Always had to be radiating happiness for the world to attribute to my parent's skill at raising a child!) resulted in punishment.
Can you imagine what it was like to be a teenager?! All young people need to 'rebel' to some extent (some against their former teachers, apparently!), and if I so much as thought about it, I was hurt in ways I can't begin to describe. My psyche is royally screwed. I have to spend a large proportion of my cash not saving for a car or a vacation or for a home or even shoe shopping (which would be nice!) but paying to see a shrink to help me not want to kill myself. I spend my earnings battling depression. This is not a preferred state of affairs, let me just say. I'd rather spend that money on something else.
But now I can blog. This means that for once I can have privacy AND experience life honestly AND share my thoughts with others for the first time, free of reproach! Anonymous blogging works for me to exercise my right to self-expression.
Currently, anonymity on the internet is not a crime. Yes, I could be hacked. I know that, and so does Mulderfan, and so do all ACoNs. The internet is not secure.
But there IS security in numbers. One in 156 million is a very small percentage. And I'm not a remarkable person, either, so why on earth would anyone care enough to bother to 'out' me? I'll take my chances, and I'll keep speaking the truth knowing that at any point in time the whole world could read it. What do I care? What does the world care? I have no illusions as to my relative importance, and I'm sure Mulderfan doesn't either.
The only person who had cared enough to find out who Mulderfan really is so far has been that anonymous student. Anonymous student has a point - her abilities aren't particularly special, and there are many people who could hack Mulderfan's site.
The real question is: Who would bother? Can you get money out of knowing who she is? Is her credit card or social insurance number tied to the name Mulderfan? No? Then very likely no one aside from Anonymous Student is going to BOTHER to dox her. Duh.
And what if her FOO finds out? What are they going to do? Mulderfan did not identify them - the doxer did. Mulderfan isn't lying, she's discussing her own life. It's HER LIFE TO DISCUSS after all.


I refer you to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. If you value the ability to anonymously blog online, please consider a donation to the EFF and their team of lawyers who are looking to protect the rights of individuals. 


Back to me and my choice to write under a pseudonym...

The people who NEED to know who I really am and where I live already know. Again, my records can be legally subpoenaed. There is no secrecy here that prevents justice from being done or which allows me to hurt others. I speak of my own thoughts, experiences, trials and triumphs. For the first time, I can converse openly and safely (yes, I realise that's relative safety, but it's safety nevertheless) with other people who understand my situation!

If it weren't for blogs like Mulderfan's, I'm not sure how well I'd be. I think I'd still be alive, but I can't even say that for sure.

An online anonymous community of people blogging about their experiences was a lifeline! Here were stories just like mine! Perspectives I hadn't considered (and varied perspectives - there was no shortage)!

There were new ACoNs with fresh minds, independent philosophies, and different experiences with invaluable insight. There were seasoned veterans very much entrenched in their ways, but as a result they stood as firm pillars of the community, holding rigidly to the truth as they saw it and defending the Adult Child of Narcissists to the hilt. There were people in the middle of this with differing views. There were males (okay, only a few - q and Evan, God bless them!), and there were females. There were mothers and there were those without children. There were grandmothers. There were people of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. There are people with different religions. There were cranky people, friendly people, bubbly people. There are quiet people, loud people, gentle people, abrasive people. Some people went No Contact, some didn't, some hadn't yet. Some people had Narcissistic Fathers, some had Narcissistic Mothers, some had Narcissistic Siblings, and we all had different stories.

And all of them, ALL of them, go by assumed or incomplete names. And that doesn't matter in the slightest.

What did matter what that all of them had something important to contribute. 

And I don't want any of them to disappear because they were bullied into silence, by proud doxers or even by fellow ACoNs.

If it wasn't for the richness and variety of 'ACoNs' out there, the benefits to other grown children of abusive parents wouldn't be so great. It would be a few polar or even mild-mannered blogs scattered throughout those 156 million personal blogs. There would be no safe haven for us.

So a plea to those looking to 'dox' out the identity of an ACoN - please don't. If ACoNs can't share their experiences in a way that feels safe and equitable to them, then people like me who were desperately seeking their thoughts and opinions won't find them.

These blogs may have quite literally saved my life. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

29 comments:

  1. Great post Quercus, loved it!

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    1. Thank you, Kara! :-) I was feeling passionate on the subject. Easy to write!

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  2. Nicely done!

    I blog anonymously primarily because I have no need/desire to have my parents publicly shamed for their treatment of me. They are not going to change and I just don't see the point of me outing them. If they posed a danger to other children, I'd feel differently.

    I think it's horrible that someone tried to our Mulderfan and hacked her account. To what purpose? It seemed a mean thing to do, not at all helpful.

    Thanks for posting this.

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    1. Thanks VR! :-) Thank you for sharing why you choose to blog anonymously. I hope that "anonymous student" now better understands the reasons why we do what we do! ;-)

      And yes, poor Mulderfan. No one needs that kind of stress!

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  3. You are not alone. Screw these bastards. I don't get it either. When Mulderfan's student kept pushing the point, I thought why do you care so much? You've said your piece. MF should be able to take what she wants from your advice and ignore what she doesn't feel pertinent to her.

    Good to see a new post from you. I've been wondering if you're OK and have been sending out "happy thoughts" to you.

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    1. Thanks Jessie for the happy thoughts! :-) Sorry to disappear - having an ACoN suddenly disappear is creepy, and we often suspect the worst. Everything is alright with me, apart from some parental garbage that I'll have to post about later when I have new insight (right now it's just, "Are you kidding me?! WTF?! What is wrong with you people?! You're nuts!" repeating over and over in my head! I've decided that my parents will NOT be the death of me after all, but it's certainly not for a lack of trying on their part!). ;-)

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    2. I've only recently decided that my death will be the one thing I won't easily give my narcs. I'm tired of living under their control.
      And I wouldn't say you disappearing was creepy (OK, well there was one I knew that was). Shit happens, people move on, things change and who knows why someone chooses to not blog anymore. However, I like you and I've enjoyed your posts and I know that you've had a rough go lately. Just I just hoped you were OK.
      And hey, I've had that broken record go round in my head too! Eventually you'll replace it with "you're nuts. You're crazy! And I don't give a shit because it has nothing to do with me!"

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    3. Ooh, that sounds nice! Actually, the apathy is starting to slip in - my husband had a good point awhile ago. He said that we should look forward to the day when my parents do something really rotten. I didn't exactly agree with this, but now I understand his point! Eventually these narcs are going to do or say something so heinous and ludicrous that our ingrained ACoN-compliance-programming will not be able to moderate it, and our logical minds are going to kick in and send us packing!
      Looking forward to that day. I can sense it coming! ;-)

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    4. May I offer something? Haven't they already done something heinous and rotten? I mean, they've treated your HORRIBLY for years and years, disregarded you and treated you like scum on their shoe.
      For me, I never got that moment. And I doubt that it would've ever really come. My narcs (while not very clever) are too clever to really bite the hand that feeds their narcissistic supply (at least in a way that I can attribute the bite to them). I never had "one" moment. I just had to finally look at what a fucking mess I was and decide that enough was enough. I didn't need them to give me a reason. My life being in the toilet was reason enough to start clearing out the b.s.

      My "healthier" record still slips, but I've found it to be my more consistent response. I wanted desperately when I started getting better for my healing to just come. For something to happen and then I could just call it a day and move on. It didn't. It was a process, and most likely, will always be a process. A long and winding road. But that's me.

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    5. Hmm, yes, this is a good point. I think part of the problem is that I didn't express my thoughts very clearly - I've stopped waiting on them to help me "lift off" shortly after the post I did on going "No Contact".

      They have most certainly done enough, yes! Very true!

      I think I still describe this situation in much the same way (same analogy, I guess), only now, instead of them having to do something additional, I just have to be sick of it. I'm just not quite there, because logically I feel as though (with everything else happening in my professional life at the moment!) I'm going to need a good reason to do something drastic right at this moment.

      It's difficult for me to articulate! :-) It's more that right now I'm happier leaving that steaming pile of horsesh*t alone, because I don't want to have to even look at it because I have more important things to do. It's got to go, and I'll get to it, but it's not my current priority.

      The 'waiting' bit comes in here: while I'm busy attending to my profession and my marriage and my friendships, each of which is more of a priority than my deranged sperm and egg donors are, there's the distinct possibility that although I TOLD them to lay off (in no uncertain terms), that they'll come a-knocking. In which case, I'll be so suitably enraged (I've had enough, and I'm fricking busy right now!), I'll promote them to #1 priority. Which you'd THINK is what they'd want, but believe me, they'll soon regret that! :-)

      Really hoping I can deal with them in a time that is convenient for ME. Because if they force my hand, things are going to get ugly for them! NOT FOR ME (for a change! Oh, what a change!), but for THEM. I'll have HAD IT once and for bloody all, and they can start hanging out on the "estranged parents" message boards with all the other narcissistic a'hole parents!

      >:-)

      How's that for the fighting spirit?

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    6. So, what I'm getting is that you are waiting for that "moment" to go NC? Because I can see that and totally understand. I still haven't gone there yet either. I'm OK right now with just managing them all at a distance...well, not OK, but things are definitely better for me. And for me, I think it's really important to work through all my steps, to get myself to a good place, to work my healing process before I go NC (if I do go that route with NM. At the moment, NSis chose NC for me. One of the nice things she's done for me lately.)
      I think my point I was trying to get at is that you don't have to wait to start setting boundaries, working on limits, and enforcing consequences. That you can do, even in small ways. I started by not responding to emails and phone calls immediately. I started by waiting a couple of hours, and then days. And now, I only answer emails if they are not baiting and over dramatic. Small things, but they've made a huge difference for me.
      Anyway, I've just found that "big moments" sometimes are hard to find and that sometimes it'll be that little moment that finally sets you off. It was for me.

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    7. I set some air-tight boundaries awhile back now. No email, no phone, no texting, no Facebook, no pop-ins at work or at home, no letters, no nothing. I said GIVE ME SPACE OR ELSE! ;-)

      If they are wise and truly care about ME, they'll give me a break (judging from the look of my inbox, they haven't complied. I'm not opening that!). If they want to never see me again, they can keep pushing!

      Truth be told, if they give me the time I asked for, I'd take that as a really positive sign that they're willing to make concessions, and to consider my needs! I'd be willing to maybe start working towards developing a tenuous relationship of sorts, in time, step by step.

      Why do I get the feeling they've still got the, "YOU'LL DO AS I SAY!" mentality? Oh right, that unopened email in my inbox. ;-)

      A few weeks down the line, and I'll be less ready to jump ship at the slightest transgression. It'll have to be a bigger infraction then. But for now - something as small as a text message might cause me to blow! :-D

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    8. Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Why can't they ever just back off a bit? But I suppose if they understood boundaries in the first place, we wouldn't have to set up so many boundaries. I'm sorry you are struggling at the moment.
      But it sounds like you've done everything you can at the moment. Still sending you "happy thoughts" (insert prayers, thoughts of support, good vibes, whatever floats your boat, here).

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    9. Got the DH to read the email for me! It was just a fwd of an email I received from elsewhere - I'm pretty sure it was just E(N)F's way of telling himself "There's no problem! We're still talking!", or perhaps he's trying to tell me that I can't dictate when I'm spoken to (hasn't been 72 hours since a recent ultimatum!). Somehow I feel it was purely denial-driven. It's sad. It's like watching a fly continue to bash its face into the window pane instead of searching for the open air! Pitiful! ;-)

      Thanks for the happy thoughts, Jessie! <3

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  4. Oh man did I ever have that "WTF?! They must be nuts!" tape running in my head last year when they acted so stupid and cruel that it broke the proverbial camel's back. What they did was bad, but certainly not their worst. However, I'd healed enough, read enough ACoN blogs to know that I wasn't crazy and my parents were bad people. It was bad enough for me to internally say, "Thanks, you finally set me free of your insane manipulations."

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    1. One of these days, given the appropriate artistic gifts (not so far forthcoming!), I'm going to illustrate this exact metaphor on canvas! It's so apt!

      Our patience only stretches so far, and boy does that limit get shortened (to a normal, healthy length) after reading blogs and NPD literature! :-)

      ACoN blogs are an essential service to help other ACoNs develop a functioning "bullsh*t tolerance meter"! Mine, having been appropriately adjusted, is rapidly reaching the FULL line! :-D

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  5. This is exactly why I don't yet have a blog, I'm terrified of being "outed". Not so much because of my parents, but because I find that most people simply do not believe me when I try to tell them what my parents are like and what it was like being a kid. I'd hate for someone I know to find me and tell me I'm nuts, basically. The student that doxed Mulderfan is a terrific case in point. His/her comment about on having mulderfan's side of the story is very typical. I'm sure most of us have heard that before in some form. I may blog, someday, if I feel that reading and contributing comments to my fellow ACON's blogs isn't enough for me.

    Funny you should mention expressing some of your thoughts artistically, Quercus, I'm in the midst of an art project illustrating the Narcissistic abuse I experienced. Art can be so freeing, that way!

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    1. Oh, so cool, AS! :-D Would love to see it! Hey, if ever you can/would like to share it, I can post an image of it on this blog to share with others. :-) Let me know! I know art can be for the creator of the piece alone, too, but if it's something you want other ACoNs to see, I can help you out! ;-)

      Ah yes, the "other side" of the story! I wish THEY (the folks with the other story) realised that we're not interested in hearing it! We read the personal anecdotes of a person. I can form my own opinions on their stories - I don't need a third person telling me what I SHOULD be thinking! Control freaks, right? ;-) "Wait! You're not seeing this the way I want you to see it!"

      That really is the bottom line, isn't it? Control, through and through!

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  6. Wow! Thanks QG! What an ego trip you've given me!

    The student didn't bother me too much because that sort of stuff is pretty much par for the course when you're dealing with adolescents. Trouble is, this kid has to be around thirty by now and is still playing these kinds of games. Funny double standard...I can be anonymous but you can't!

    During the last few years, I taught in the small community where I lived so my life was a bit of an open book! I even taught my DD in kindergarten but when I went back to teaching Grades 7/8 she finished Grade 6 then went to another school. So, the kids knew exactly where I lived, my DD, DH and the names of all my cats and dogs!

    Anyway, I've always been kind of an open book, except for keeping the dirty little secret that was my NFOO.

    So, here goes: shoe size (10W), favourite meal (Pretty much anything someone other than me cooks!), eye colour (Green) and bathroom habits (Usually accompanied by a dog!)

    If anyone wants to know more, just post a comment on my blog, (which I won't publish), give me your name, and I'll friend you on FB.

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    1. Ha ha ha, LOVE IT! :-D Would happily 'friend' you on Facebook, but am considering quitting that game (NM has discovered it and her and the flying monkeys are always swooping in for an attack!). >:-p

      Mulderfan, you're hilarious! LOVE this!

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    2. Loved the random facts portion of your post MF! I've often thought about doing a post about the Miscellania of Jessie, just to balance out all the heaviness that my blog can be. My live is not all narcs and drama!

      So thanks for sharing those fun facts. I especially loved the bathroom habits. Mine are ALWAYS accompanied by a small child, or two, or the cat, or all three. See what you have to look forward to as a mom, QG (I mean, if and when you so choose ;)! )

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  7. Mulderfan, that's priceless.

    And to anonymous, many of us blog to reach the ears of those who DO believe us. While there will be naysayers (and where in life aren't?) the larger community will back you up. That has been validating and invaluable to me.

    Not trying to strong arm you into blogging, but I for one would likely benefit from hearing your story.

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    1. Just like in AA, there's always someone whose story you'd love to hear!

      They get to hear my story tonight but I'm going to miss out the dog-watching-me-pee bit! I'm also planning to skim right through my NFOO. I used to spend far too much time speaking about the past and not enough time on the now. This is the 1st time I have spoken since I've been NC

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  8. Informative! I didn't know this word existed. Well timed and quite helpful. and there was some good QG stuff in there too, which I loved. and could relate to a lot. hugs.

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  9. Names are just what we call each other to identify our stories and opinions. Some people I learned their other names but I still use their blogger names because that is how I remember. Excellent posts. First thing I learned about the internet was how stalkers and others use it in a negative way. I am thankful to my sister that persuaded me that more than just stalkers use the internet. I am blessed by all these people and their life sharing. I learn from all of them.

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    1. Hey Ruth,
      Thanks for sharing that. I'm instantly suspicious (and leery) of anyone who asks, "Who are you really?!".
      Well, I'll tell you - I'm REALLY Quercus Garryana. In fact, this is more of the real ME than the real me that has to file taxes, or who visits the bank, or any other of that official stuff that requires government issued photo ID.
      I might even change my 'real name', as Sister Renee Pitelli did. Because, as you point out Ruth, names are simply handles!
      In the Biblical times, knowing the Name of someone was vital in a way that isn't today. Knowing WHO someone was was a real sign of intimacy (hence the "In the Name of God" phrasing).
      Nowadays, "what's in a name?" from Romeo and Juliet springs to mind. My person is not personified in the name that my abusive parents bestowed upon me. My person is my heart and soul.
      And if anyone wants to know who I "really am", they can read this blog. This is who I really am. My real name is of no consequence, and I leave it behind, gleefully. It's a trap for me. QG is freeing - I can be truly me without someone saying, "Aha! You're _____'s daughter! You belong over there, with them! They need you. You're breaking your mother's heart.....".
      QG is me. Nice to truly meet all of you. ;-)

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    2. Here's looking at you, Kid.

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    3. Okay, so, my joke flopped.

      (Cue the sad trombone.)
      http://sadtrombone.com/classic

      When you said, "Who are you really", I couldn't help but think of the movie "Casablanca" and this part:

      Rick: Who are you really, and what were you before? What did you do and what did you think, huh?
      Ilsa: We said no questions.
      Rick: ...Here's looking at you, kid.

      :/
      :D

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    4. *Whoosh* (the sound of your sophisticated and cultured joke going straight over my head!). ;-)

      I'm sorry, SCW - I still laugh at fart noises! :-) You might have to explain all your jokes to me! I'm glad for it, too - I can borrow them for fancy occasions when the 'Knock-Knock' jokes aren't going to fly! ;-)

      I cannot believe I still haven't seen Casablanca. I will. You've inspired me to be more, SCW! :-)

      Thanks for explaining it. Sorry I accidentally constitute a 'tough crowd'! ;-)

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